TGCCC Adopted Minutes 10 September 2007

Terminals GCCC

(Terminals Geelong Community Consultative Committee)

Adopted Minutes of the Meeting

Held in the Meeting Room, Corio Library, Norlane

Monday 10 September 2007

Present:

Geelong Community for Good Life	Sue McLean
Geelong Community Forum	Suz Kelly Turner
Community Representative	Peter Linaker Bill Aitken John Wilson Daniel McLean Gordon Alderson
Friends of Corio Bay	Pam Edwards
EPA	Neil McKenzie
CFA	Ian Beswicke Bob Smith John Mealia
City of Greater Geelong, ABM	Tom O'Connor
Terminals Pty Ltd	Gary O'Sullivan Carlo Fasolino George Horman

Apologies:

Terminals Pty Ltd	Geoff Millard
Community Representative	Catherine Jones
Community Representative	Francesca Dezelak
Geelong Grammar School	Jonathan Apted
City of Greater Geelong	Lyndon Rae Steve Sodamaco

ITEM 1	Welcome by Chair
Robin	Welcomed all members and encouraged an immediate start to the full agenda.
ITEM 2	Apologies, confirmation of Draft Agenda
	Apologies were received from George Millard, Catherine Jones, Francesca Dezelak, Lyndon Rae and Steve Sodamaco.
Robin	Asked for confirmation of the Draft Agenda; agreed.
ITEM 3	Emergency Management and communication: committee discussion as main item of business
Suz Kelly-Turner	Introduced the paper "DO WE NEED AN EMERGENCY EARLY WARNING & COMMUNICATION PLAN TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO RESIDENTS LIVING CLOSE TO THE PORT OF GEELONG". Stated that Sue McLean, George Horman and herself had discussed and come up with the points made on the paper. She stated that a chemical warning system is what is desired by the community and although there are many warning systems in place in Geelong, none of these are for chemical emergencies. She highlighted the allusive nature of chemical emergencies and the requirement for them to be dealt with in a different way to other emergencies. Stated that the distribution of fridge magnets with specific messages on them to community residents, similar to a method used by Shell a few years ago, and followed by a chemical warning system is what is hoped for in the future. Mentioned that she had personal experiences where community representatives at Shell had expressed genuine fear in terms of what was to happen if there was an emergency. Highlighted the success of warning systems in California and suggested that they could be possible models that could be followed in Geelong. Stated that the concerned members are seeking the support for an emergency warning program from other industries.
Robin	Welcomed Pam Edwards from the Friends of Corio Bay to TGCCC.
Suz Kelly-Turner	Asked what kind of support, in these initial stages, could be gathered from TGCCC members and suggested for there to be some informal discussion on what was outlined in the paper, potentially progressing towards a warning system.
Peter	Stated that the attitude of the community should be represented in the committee. Stated in his personal understanding, there are three types of responsive behaviours to an emergency situation; one being to escape, two being to shelter and three being to wait for an all clear. Stated that there must be a uniform approach adopted by industry that considers these factors(?) He secondly raised the issue of the management of children in emergency situations and the potential pandemonium that it could cause in schools.
Suz Kelly-Turner	Asked if schools have done drills to prepare for the event of a chemical emergency, as there is a big difference between chemical emergencies and fire emergencies.
Ian	Stated that the smoke from a fire is just as dangerous and that a chemical emergency would follow the same procedure; 1. there would be a preliminary warning 2. there would be a present warning 3. then there would be the all clear. Stated that it is the content of the messages made to the public in the event that are important in terms of informing them how to act.
Peter	Stated that there had been some misunderstanding in terms of the difficulty in distinguishing the level of emergency from a siren that sounds from the plant.
Gordon	Referred to the model incorporating mobile phone technology and stated that it could be a more reliable way of communicating to the community than with an audible response. Also suggested that TGCCC looks elsewhere for effective models, nationwide or overseas, rather than create something that has already been successfully done.
Robin	Highlighted the Californian scheme mentioned in the paper presented as a possible model.
Suz Kelly-Turner	Elaborated further by saying that the scheme relies upon an early warning system, which has poles on every corner that can siren different alarms that require different responses. Stated that the telephone systems have been working well globally.
Sue McLean	Stated that research with Suz Kelly-Turner into Victorian services from 2005/2006 had revealed that data technology needed to ensure there was a community education program in place, in order to address the vulnerable in the community. Stated the importance of a focus on knowing the specific demographics of the community so to best deal problems as they arise. Asked how CFA deals with these issues now.
Ian	Stated that there are multilingual pamphlets available to non-English speaking community members, as there are speakers in the organisation who can cover the diversity that ranges within the community.
Sue McLean	Asked hypothetically how deaf people would be informed in an emergency.
Ian	Stated that they would be informed by officers door knocking but services don't know where they are. However, evacuation is always considered to be a last resort as the process to register each person, account for each person etc is time-consuming and difficult.
Sue McLean	Acknowledged the difficulty of the process but stated that there should be something more definitive.
Gordon	Raised the issue of privacy laws with regards to access to personal details and the difficulty of carrying out a successful doorknock within a certain time limit.
Suz Kelly-Turner	Stated that with community agreement through education, this cooperation can be eased.
George	Stated that in the last 35 years at Terminals, there hasn't been an emergency incident and asked how do you keep people alert for something that rarely occurs. CFA equipment and resources are available to cover a range of situations. Terminals is not the only potential source of an emergency and therefore something that is flexible and applicable to a variety of situations, such as to include Shell, chemical transport etc would be best practice. Stated a preference in the phone system to the siren posting.
Pam	Raised the issue that contacting via mobile phones can also be unreliable. Stated when a bitumen tank went up at Shell recently and emitted a significant amount of smoke, with the electricity down, Shell couldn't even release an alarm system. Also raised the problems in the past between Shell and Pulse radio, in terms of allowing for public notification.
Suz Kelly-Turner	Stated that it is important to look at the bigger picture, suggesting that chemicals are not stored only by Terminals and perhaps that chemical transport is more problematic than chemical storage in spheres.
Ian	Stated that the discussion was good, but asked if the flood warning system trial in Footscray had been looked at.
Robin	Stated that it was important to distinguish the trial flood warning system to the trial chemical warning system. The flood warning system involves about 200 people, who are notified when there is a risk of flooding from the Maribyrnong River. It is an ongoing program funded by the City of Maribyrnong. The chemical warning telephone warning trial involved less than 1000 people and was funded by the Office of the Emergency Services Commissioner. Due to a lack of further funding, it has not been taken forward to the next stage of implementation. The need for a National system and funding has now been referred to COAG (Council of Australian Governments) by the Victorian Government for consideration.
Suz Kelly-Turner	Stated that the paper of the Department of Justice's website placed great emphasis on community education.
Sue McLean	Stated that she encouraged TGCCC to gain government funding for a system and for the issue to be pursued to the next stage.
John Wilson	Stated that a response should include a whole blanket operation, not just one or two. Referred to when the power went out at Shell, suggested that a power grid is set up from other sources for back up. Stated that the need to address Government departments for alternative solutions.
Bill	Stated that industries must come together in terms of an emergency response. Asked how can the correct message be made across to areas out of range through agencies in Geelong.
George	Stated that it is unrealistic to be able to achieve perfection. He stated that when faced with mass communication, door knocking is very arduous and that the ideal is for there to be an improvement on the existing system to better aide the emergency services. Stated that Terminals' siren is to notify within the Terminals property and not designed for the public. When the siren is sounded, Terminals goes through the appropriate motions, follows the emergency plan and CFA, council etc are notified. The only notification that the public receives is through emergency services through the radio. The Shell siren goes off a lot and is no threat to the community as it refers only to an internal issue, yet this causes unnecessary panic. The regularity of the siren means that people can become blas'e about the warning, which makes for it to be not a good communication tool.
Gordon	Asked if there had been some mention of a disaster plan. Asked what 'DISPLAN' is.
Bob	Stated that it is the organisation that implements the steps required to communicate during an emergency, through police, then radio 774 etc. The organisation for emergencies follows that police have the coordinating role. Referred to the experience of people in shopping centres carrying on as per normal despite sirens sounding. Stated that if there is an immediate impact on people, there must be immediate notifications.
Robin	Referring to the experience of HazMAG at Footscray, stated that at a chemical emergency it takes authorities a few hours to sort out the nature of the problem, the likely extent of the risk and a suitable response and this is professionally acceptable. It is during this early time when the community may learn that there is an emergency, and wants information. There is pressure for authorities to issue some information, but there is also some reluctance to do that when the emergency response is still at an early stage. During the trials, companies issued pre-recorded messages for public reassurance. Robin raised the dilemma between emergency services and the community whereby each have different focuses; with Emergency Services dealing with the onerous task of the emergency, and the community being anxious and needing information to know what is going on.
Peter	Stated that it is important to avoid information overload. He argued against the point of view that believes an emergency might not happen. Stated that it is the duty of the safety authorities to educate the community to avoid panic. This can be achieved through providing the necessary literature, trials and local meetings to review procedures. Stated that he supported the paper presented tonight.
Tom	Highlighted that discussion has based upon the presumption that the community is awake. Asked what would happen if something was to at night. Stated that whatever the solution is, it will have to be a middle ground solution, without any absolutes.
Sue McLean	Agreed and stated that we must move forward and accept that the solution involves a partnership between the community and services. Suggested that a demographic within the community identified as being vulnerable in an emergency situation are used as the trial group. Also stated that we cannot ride on the presumption that it won't happen.
Gary	Stated that at Terminals when there is an emergency, the equipment goes into shut down or 'safe-mode'.
Gordon	Pointed out that when Shell's power went off, so too did their radio systems
Ian	Stated that the process in place for warning people is through 774, which is State and Commonwealth government approved. Stated that a telephone system is very expensive to maintain and run, that reliance on mobile phones can place too much pressure on communication towers which can then block up the system for emergency services. Stated that the solution must allow for emergency services to work effectively. In an incident, the media contacts the emergency services very quickly and the message is out in the public within a very short space of time. Stated that emergency services are very careful that people pay attention when alarms are sounded.
Robin	Asked Ian about the difference between fire and chemical responses
Ian	Stated that the response was no different; both make announcements through 774 fm and then get the local media onside.
Bill	Referred to the Boral Bitumen fire where CFA successfully isolated the incident and the only problem experienced was when people came to pick up their cars, and found there access had been blocked. The management of the fire was good value in terms of leaning what would work well in future emergency responses.
Carlo	Stated that there is a system is place, but most people don't know what it is.
Sue McLean	Raised concern that some issues discussed have been oversimplified. Rather than addressing the issue of mass communication in the model outlined in the paper, all is being suggested is a pilot program for a couple of hundred people, which would not threaten to cripple emergency services, telephone systems...etc. Asked what would be wrong with a trial with people within a 2 km radius of Terminals as it would not be too expensive, nor resource intensive. Expressed some disappointment in the negative CFA response to the model. Stated that the media cannot be relied upon to follow through on issues. Stated that there had been no previously understanding of the CFA education program relating to this issue.
Robin	Clarified that Ian had some concern about a system overload but had expressed that CFA was open to new approaches and that this was not entirely negative.
Sue McLean	Requested for community and emergency services to work on a pilot program.
John Wilson	Stated that the issue of Shell lacking power was a state, even a federal issue.
Gordon	Expressed support for Sue and the system proposal. Stated that the use of 774fm is mandated by the governments services to use and therefore, industries should be encouraged to go there rather than for PULSE, which had been the cause of problems in the past.
George	Raised the issue of CFA facing tough decisions in terms of who to notify and communicate with in the event of an emergency and then the issue of public comfort, which could not take precent to the former as it is essential that emergency services make effective communication.
Robin	Asked what was the substance of the telephone message used during the trial at Maribyrnong
George	Stated that people were notified to stay indoors, they were reassured that progress was being made etc. Suggested that more comfort is gained from being informed by radio, rather than by individual phone calls.
Peter	Stated that CFA can maintain their role with 774 fm but the community may feel that they have different needs to those which the services regard. Stated that the community needs are the priority. Asked if the primary school listens to 774 and raised further concern about the protection of children.
Gary	Referred back to Peter's comments on emergency responses but saying that it is the incident control which must be the authority. Agreed with the education program put forward by Sue, which may include information such as 'stay inside but refer to the authorities' and this may be enough in most cases.
John Mealia	Stated that the system proposed would come under his jurisdiction. Stated that having listened to the discussion, he congratulated the community members for their on their work, initiatives and commitment to date to address the issues. John's comment around piloting Emergency Communication was to encourage the committee to continue to work with both industry and emergency services to ensure they fully understand the risks associated with MHF and the control measures in place to mitigate those risks and to protect the community. John spoke about the potential for perceived risk which can create unnecessary concern and fear in the community if they do not fully understand and have confidence in the risk control systems and process in place, which under current laws is significant. After listening to the comments leading up the proposal to pilot an emergency communication system and based on my comments above, John expressed a view that an emergency communication system may not be the most appropriate strategy for the community to adopt and therefore would like to see more work done before a trial is considered. John spoke about his concern that if the community did not fully understand the hazards and risks, particularly regarding potential impact on the community from an incident, the committee may not advocate the right strategies or mix of strategies to address community needs and expectation, one of which may be a community emergency communication system. He also indicated there may not be any risk to the community from an incident within a MHF (Terminals) and that by working with industry and relevant authorities through a properly facilitated process the community will reach an understanding of the risks. Only then will they be well placed to ensure they are fully informed, prepared and know what to do in the event of an incident if there is a likelihood of it impacting on the community.
Sue McLean	Stated that the community members are very well familiar with the industrial regulations but there is little faith in the organisations that are responsible for them. Stated that the community may not share the views of the authorities involved in setting the regulations and while they are aware of the regimes, it is believed that more needs to be done.
John Mealia	Questioned where such attitudes could be founded. Stated that whatever program is implemented, it must be based upon risk and only then can you have a system that can offset the risk.
Bill	Stated that as a resident for over 35 years around the industries, there is an awareness of CFA's efficiency but also a want to just know what's going on in an emergency.
John	Agreed with the importance of community education but also in understanding the risk involved so to understand that if there's an incident, it won't affect them.
Robin	Stated that TGCCC members are very well informed of the regulations at Terminals and have a thorough understanding of the issue, through involvement in HAZOP, VCAT etc. Stated that Terminals isn't the area where there is the greatest area of community concern and that it is a broader issue at hand. Highlighted to John that there is great value in having him present at the meeting in terms of allowing himself to take part in considering if the proposal is worthwhile.
Tom	Raised concern over resigning to the attitude that places all trust within the authorities and suggested that perhaps there should be more education within industry how to better engage with the community.
John Mealia	Agreed and suggested that there are many community members who are misdirected on the issue. John provided advice CFA will continue to work with the community in partnership with industry and other emergency services to ensure we build and strengthen self reliant communities and to achieve the extra work needed, and suggested a smaller group be established.
Sue McLean	Asked what evidence there is to suggest that.
John Mealia	Referred back to his earlier point that a system would be adopted if a credible risk is there. Stated that is must reflect what the community needs and that he would be happy to sit on sub-committees to discuss.
Peter	Stated that it had been obvious enough from the concern that Shell's safety performance had raised and the collective experience of TGCCC members that there is a credible risk.
Gary	Stated that Shell's alarms make it difficult to distinguish between minor or major hazards.
Sue McLean	Stated that one is longer and the other is shorter, but that they are used for the site and not for public notification.
Gary	Asked why this has not been made clear to the public.
Suz Kelly-Turner	Addressing John Mealia, stated that there have been at least 2 or 3 people, who are not asking for a survey with large numbers but for one in a defined area. Stated that while there might be satisfaction within the CFA organisation, there is strong suggestion that there is not amongst community members.
Gordon	Proposed that there is a sub-committee formed, which includes John and members to work towards a pilot study.
ACTION	A subcommittee to be formed comprising of CFA (local and Melbourne office), EPA, Terminals, City of Greater Geelong and community representatives to investigate community needs and expectations, and a way to address these, possibly through a pilot scheme.
Tom	Suggested that it includes the needs and expectation of the other organisations.
Sue McLean	Suggested involvement by the Department of Education.
George	Spoke against the inclusion of the Department of Education, stating that although he supported involvement with education, this would not be the appropriate forum. If Jon Apted is available, he could contribute a school based input.
Robin	Asked members to clarify the expectation of the committee to report, what time frame is to be expected.
Sue McLean	Stated for reporting to be made continually.	Ro
Robin	Asked who would participate (received interest in commitment from Sue McLean, Suz Kelly-Turner, George Horman, EPA representative, Ian Beswicke, Bob Smith, Andrew Andreou and John Maliea. Also suggestion of Kevin Garde from CoGG)
Ian	Suggested police involvement.
John Mealia	Stated that he would look into it.
George	Suggested that meetings are held fortnightly for the next 2 months.
Bob	Stated that CFA could offer a facility for the meetings.
Robin	Asked what date would be suitable. (Agreed upon 17th September, 1:00pm at 61 Separation Street, North Geelong). Proposed that the Action Item list is postponed to next meeting.
ITEM 4	Confirmation of Draft Minutes from meeting 6th August 2007.
Robin	Draft minutes confirmed, no changes adopted. Declared meeting closed at 8:50pm.
	The next meeting will take place on Monday 8 October in the Meeting Room of Corio Library, Cox Road, Norlane at 6.00 for 6.30pm.

After the meeting John Mealia provided Robin with written notes of his input at the meeting, which have generally been adopted. The final paragraph of John's advice is provided below. As it is a reflection, rather than what was said at the meeting, it is not part of the meeting minutes. Nevertheless it is an important input, and will remain attached to the minutes in this form.

"It is my understanding there was generally agreement from the committee which led to the establishment of a subcommittee. The purpose of the sub-committee is to look at community needs and expectations based on risk of an incident impacting directly on the community and to look at what systems and processes should be considered and presented to the full committee to consider. This would be the best option to secure government agencies and industries support for a pilot scheme, and that at present, CFA is not in a position to support such a trial." John Mealia